Hi all,
The flares information session and demo at the symposium was
great. During it there was some discussion about what flares are most
suitable for sea kayaking. I don\'t recall a definitive answer, but it
seemed to be dependent on the nature of a given trip - particularly on
how far from shore you plan to go.
So, here are my questions for the old heads:[ol]
[li] What is the minimum one should carry, e.g., when the planed trip is close the shore and there are 4 or 5 in the group? [/li]
[li] What would you recommend for more adventurous trips, say further from shore or with a smaller group? [/li]
[li] Or should one always plan for the worst-case scenario (in which case the answers to the two questions above are the same)? [/li][/ol]
Advice would be appreciated,
Niall.
What flares?
-
michaelcheers
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:37 am
Re:What flares?
Don\'t really know what the official word is or even if there is one, but I carry the following no mater how big the group.
2 Parachutes
1 pinpoint orange smoke
1 pinpoint orange handflare
1 x 8 miniflares
All of these are carried within reach on deck.
If I was in and around a harbour area I might also consider a white anti collision flare but I don\'t have one.
Is this about right, over the top, or not enough? I\'ve no idea. I guess its down to your own perception on risk. For me the flares represent last chance saloon after calls on the VHF and mobile phone. I\'d rather have more than one parachute as they are the most visible. I would also be interested in hearing what other carry.
For another perspective take PainsWessex(http://www.pwss.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=468)
- one of the makers of flares. They sell flare packs according to area of operation Inshore (
2 Parachutes
1 pinpoint orange smoke
1 pinpoint orange handflare
1 x 8 miniflares
All of these are carried within reach on deck.
If I was in and around a harbour area I might also consider a white anti collision flare but I don\'t have one.
Is this about right, over the top, or not enough? I\'ve no idea. I guess its down to your own perception on risk. For me the flares represent last chance saloon after calls on the VHF and mobile phone. I\'d rather have more than one parachute as they are the most visible. I would also be interested in hearing what other carry.
For another perspective take PainsWessex(http://www.pwss.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=468)
- one of the makers of flares. They sell flare packs according to area of operation Inshore (
-
michaelcheers
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:37 am
Re:What flares?
cont.
nshore (less than 5nm) coastal (less than 7nm) and Offshore (greater than7nm).
By strict definition the Inshore pack would serve most of our purposes but personally I would feel mighty exposed with just the two smokes and two handflares that they recommend.
I agree with your third bullet point absolutely. I plan for the worst case scenario always. And one of the worst case scenarios is being separated from the group and having to deal with an emergency on your own - in this instance you can\'t rely on the kit and skills that are in someone elses posession. My ethos is to be as independent as possible, that goes for carrying flares, and items such as split paddles for which it is often suggested that they can be carried amongst the group, as well working up skills such as the ability to perform a solo deepwater rescue, a bombproof roll or the ability to change the plan and navigate to safety
as verbose as ever
Mike CheersPost edited by: michaelcheers, at: 2007/11/14 07:53
nshore (less than 5nm) coastal (less than 7nm) and Offshore (greater than7nm).
By strict definition the Inshore pack would serve most of our purposes but personally I would feel mighty exposed with just the two smokes and two handflares that they recommend.
I agree with your third bullet point absolutely. I plan for the worst case scenario always. And one of the worst case scenarios is being separated from the group and having to deal with an emergency on your own - in this instance you can\'t rely on the kit and skills that are in someone elses posession. My ethos is to be as independent as possible, that goes for carrying flares, and items such as split paddles for which it is often suggested that they can be carried amongst the group, as well working up skills such as the ability to perform a solo deepwater rescue, a bombproof roll or the ability to change the plan and navigate to safety
as verbose as ever
Mike CheersPost edited by: michaelcheers, at: 2007/11/14 07:53
Re:What flares?
For me
1 Parachute
2 pinpoint orange smoke / light double enders
1 x 8 miniflares
Apparently the double enders have virtually no use-by date, but as seen on Sunday, they flare for a very short time by comparison with other handhelds.
Carried in a waterproof bumbag.
DW
1 Parachute
2 pinpoint orange smoke / light double enders
1 x 8 miniflares
Apparently the double enders have virtually no use-by date, but as seen on Sunday, they flare for a very short time by comparison with other handhelds.
Carried in a waterproof bumbag.
DW
Re:What flares?
What I took from the presentation and demonstration was that one pack of mini-flares (8no.) and one double sided flare (orange smoke on one end and hand-flare on the other) is enough. These should fit in a waterproof lunchbox with gloves as packing. Cost and storage are issues to consider. It seems to me that flares will be most useful in pinpointing your location for someone who is already looking for you. Otherwise you\'re in the lap of the GODS.
Where to store them is another question. In the boat is not much use given that if you are in the boat you are probably ok. But there is no room in my pockets for a lunchbox and I don\'t fancy storing flares in my undies.
Where to store them is another question. In the boat is not much use given that if you are in the boat you are probably ok. But there is no room in my pockets for a lunchbox and I don\'t fancy storing flares in my undies.
Re:What flares?
Conventional wisdom is:
1 parachute red
1 pinpoint red
1 orange smoke
Where to stow is contentious. Some say in the boat is the only sensible place. The danger is that if you lose your boat, the flares are gone too. If they\'re in the kayak, carry miniflares in your buoyancy aid.
If carrying all flares on your person, the back pocket on most buoyancy aids does the job. Use a light dry bag and a strap or cord to make sure you can access them. The downside of this is the extra weight, high up on your body.
It\'s not unreasonable to carry some of your flares in the boat (personal opinion). You may be in your boat but very much not ok. For example, if rafted up with an unconscious paddler. On ICU assessments, the flares must be accessible. The location isn\'t specified.
The parachute is essential for the first alert. If you\'re under a cliff or some way out to sea, nothing else will do.
The pinpoint red and orange smoke are for when the rescue services are actively looking for you.
The pinpoint red is most effective at night but can be used during the day also.
The orange smoke is for daytime use but be aware it\'s not hugely effective in very strong winds as the smoke gets blown away very rapidly.
My safety equipment comes with me regardless of whether I\'m doing a session at the harbour mouth or doing a 10 mile open crossing. It\'s not something you should have to think about and you should never have to rely on someone else.
1 parachute red
1 pinpoint red
1 orange smoke
Where to stow is contentious. Some say in the boat is the only sensible place. The danger is that if you lose your boat, the flares are gone too. If they\'re in the kayak, carry miniflares in your buoyancy aid.
If carrying all flares on your person, the back pocket on most buoyancy aids does the job. Use a light dry bag and a strap or cord to make sure you can access them. The downside of this is the extra weight, high up on your body.
It\'s not unreasonable to carry some of your flares in the boat (personal opinion). You may be in your boat but very much not ok. For example, if rafted up with an unconscious paddler. On ICU assessments, the flares must be accessible. The location isn\'t specified.
The parachute is essential for the first alert. If you\'re under a cliff or some way out to sea, nothing else will do.
The pinpoint red and orange smoke are for when the rescue services are actively looking for you.
The pinpoint red is most effective at night but can be used during the day also.
The orange smoke is for daytime use but be aware it\'s not hugely effective in very strong winds as the smoke gets blown away very rapidly.
My safety equipment comes with me regardless of whether I\'m doing a session at the harbour mouth or doing a 10 mile open crossing. It\'s not something you should have to think about and you should never have to rely on someone else.
Re:What flares?
Malcolm Huston RNLI ( (gave flare demo at Symposium) has done some homework on what flares would be suitable for sea kayakers. Here are RNLI recommendations:
(Note: Where quantity \'2\' recommended .. this was mentioned at his talk... often, when someone sees a flare, they will wonder if they really saw something: a second flare will get the desired reaction.. help!!)
The RNLI would recommend that your members should carry the following
2 x Day/Nights
2 x Parachute
1 x White Anti-Collision (if operating in busy harbours etc.)
A pack of mini flares might could be considered a substitute for the parachute flares unless canoeists are likely to be under high cliffs, where the ceiling of the mini flares might not be high enough to be seen (80 metres).
(Note: Where quantity \'2\' recommended .. this was mentioned at his talk... often, when someone sees a flare, they will wonder if they really saw something: a second flare will get the desired reaction.. help!!)
The RNLI would recommend that your members should carry the following
2 x Day/Nights
2 x Parachute
1 x White Anti-Collision (if operating in busy harbours etc.)
A pack of mini flares might could be considered a substitute for the parachute flares unless canoeists are likely to be under high cliffs, where the ceiling of the mini flares might not be high enough to be seen (80 metres).