boat selection advice

[markmcauley]

I hope you don\'t mind my using the forum to seek advice. I want to buy a sea kayak for some days trips out of wicklow and dun laoghaire this summer. Probably a plastic boat since I will be hauling it a lot - rocks, car roof, etc. Any advice on size, type, spec, where to buy, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks. Mark

[etienne]

Hi Mark

That is a big question. You need to make ask yourself some questions and make a list. Are you new to sea kayaking? Will you be out all year round? What conditions do you want to be able to go out in? Is speed more important than stability? How much can you spend? (you will need extra for spray deck - paddle/s - clothing - bouyancy aid - etc). Will you be going out on your own??

If you are tall and or heavy, have big feet, you will need a boat that will accommodate your size, or you will be limiting your comfort time and pleasure on the water.

Assuming you are fairly new to sea kayaking (or you would not be asking this question) and you intend to be out on your own in rough conditions you should possibly consider a sit-on style kayak for safety sake. What looks like a short distance from the comfort of your seat can be an awful long swim if you are trying to pull a swamped canoe through rough water in an offshore wind and ebbing tide. Get a small dry case for your mobile Phone and check the signal. before you go out if at all in doubt.

Well that\'s my penny\'s worth. happy paddling

Etienne

[DaveWalsh]

Mark
The statement that if \"you intend to be out on your own in rough conditions you should possibly consider a sit-on style kayak for safety sake\" is as dangerous a piece of nonsense as I\'ve seen in a good while.
In fact, it may qualify as one of those self contradictory thingies that have a special name, like \"army intelligence\".
DWalsh

[CeeGee]

What looks like a short distance from the comfort of your seat can be an awful long swim if you are trying to pull a swamped canoe through rough water in an offshore wind and ebbing tide

Fact is, you will not tow a kayak, sit-on-top or otherwise, any distance against wind or tide. You should not be out in rough conditions, alone or otherwise, unless confident and competent to deal with the conditions, and able for any likely self-rescue scenarios, e.g. roll, re-entry and roll, paddlefloat entry etc. etc.

I\'d suggest some training, and the chance to try out a few different boats at the same time. Sea kayaking is maybe 50% skill and technique, and 50% weather, sea state, navigation and risk assessment and good judgement, plus a big dose of equipment. For solo kayaking its easy to spend as much on safety equipment and protective clothing as on the kayak. Solo is really only for very sheltered conditions, or after extensive development of skills etc.

JMHO

Steve

[CeeGee]

What looks like a short distance from the comfort of your seat can be an awful long swim if you are trying to pull a swamped canoe through rough water in an offshore wind and ebbing tide

Fact is, you will not tow a kayak, sit-on-top or otherwise, any distance against wind or tide. You should not be out in rough conditions, alone or otherwise, unless confident and competent to deal with the conditions, and able for any likely self-rescue scenarios, e.g. roll, re-entry and roll, paddlefloat entry etc. etc.

I\'d suggest some training, and the chance to try out a few different boats at the same time. Sea kayaking is maybe 50% skill and technique, and 50% weather, sea state, navigation and risk assessment and good judgement, plus a big dose of equipment. For solo kayaking its easy to spend as much on safety equipment and protective clothing as on the kayak. Solo is really only for very sheltered conditions, or after extensive development of skills etc.

JMHO

Steve

[Dave]

Sea Kayaking around Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire is extremely dangerous when alone. A sit on top is totally inadequate for rough conditions. The Irish Canoe Union have still not developed any courses for sit on tops and they are still shying away from them. Most of the recent incidents involving the lifeboats and canoes/kayaks have been sit on tops.
There have also been a few incidents of solo paddlers with little experience getting into trouble on the sea. There are set training courses for beginners and experienced paddlers.

Before you even consider buying a kayak do a course. There are many very good course providers around the country.

Dave C

[markmcauley]

Folks,
Many thanks for all the advice. The safety warnings are very helpful. I have done some coastal sea kayaking overseas and I know Irish waters from the point of view as a dinghy sailor and sea swimmer. However, I have never owned my own kayak and would consider my self a relative novice. One question to allow me to make a safety judgement on solo kayaking - If you roll a sea kayak and cannot eskimo roll, does that always leave you with a sunk kayak, or can you right it, bail it and get back in? Sorry for what is probably a daft question.
I\'m off to buy a 15ft plastic boat with a basic paddle and spray deck soon. Good enough for my needs?

[Dave]

In general no kayak should sink, if a paddler exits their kayak and cannot get back into it, they should stay with the kayak. The reason for this is that a kayak is much easier to spot in the water than the head of a swimmer which you now are if you are out of the boat.
Solo paddling should only be undertaken by very competent paddlers. While paddling solo (which I would definitely not recommend) one should carry appropriate safety equipment. Flares, Radio, Whistle etc.The best way to become a competent paddler is to join a club. The east coast kayakers club is very active and has plenty of members. You would be very welcome on some of our trips. If you are looking for a kayak you would be crazy to buy one without trying the model out.


The best thing to do if you are only a novice is sign up with one of the course providers (see links section on board) and do a course.

[alanhorner]

Mark
by the sounds of your last posing - you are determined to go alone

please don\'t - we don\'t bite - come an join us on a Saturday morning
on the East Coast.

In reply to your question
If you can\'t roll......
NO you can\'t bail it alone
NO you can\'t get back in unaided


No need to stress the consequences if you end up in the water all alone
You will will need to be accompanied.

Give me a call if you want to connect with u - 086-6869019

[CeeGee]

Mark,

Whilst in NO WAY deviating from the sound advice given by Dave, Alan etc. re: getting some training and joining a group, there are plenty of sources to familiarize yourself with sea techniques, e.g.
http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/Pages ... ls-1.shtml
It makes interesting reading before going on the water, and gives you an idea of some of the skills you can practice and develop over time. Incidentally MOST rescue techniques are designed to be executed as part of a group, and if everyone knows what to do during a \"rescue\", especially the victim, all are back paddling ASAP with minimal inconvenience. This is where a course (even if joining a group later) is of value, as most trips are more about participating than training. A competent T or X rescue, back in the boat in 30 seconds, is a good start and will add to enjoyment and build confidence. You\'ll build other more advanced skills from there. Maybe read a couple of good books too, the new \'Sea Kayak - A manual for intermediate and advanced sea kayakers. \' by Gordon Brown goes right up to expedition level, but is well presented, cheap (