Hi all,
in order to try keep the constitution thread confined to that topic, I am opening another one on CI affiliation and insurance. I am posting here a reply to Chris Mc Daid. He requested information on the mutual recognition of insurance between CI and CANI.
We will post a link to the insurance policy document later. Unfortunately, we cannot attach PDF documents to the message board so will need to post links.
HI Chris,
I attach an email with CIarán Maguire about mutual insurance between CI, NI and GB national governing bodies. , received on 16 May 2025. It has my questions and his responses.
Hi Robert,
Sorry for the delay.
I am looking to clarify a detail from our conversation last month. It is regarding UK/NI paddlers
Q:From memory, once they are insured via an NGB, they are insured for CI Purposes.
A:Yes, once there other NGBs policy covers them to paddle in Ireland
Q:Also, if a CI member goes to the UK/NI, are they insured as if they were paddling as a member of that NGB?
A:No, our policy covers you worldwide except for Canada and the US.
Q:An NI paddler who is a paddle NI member does not need to get CI membership to paddle at a meet in the ROI.
A:Correct once, Paddle NI policy covers them to paddle here.
Many thanks, Ciaran
________________
Ciaran Maguire
Operations Director
Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
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Chris McDaid
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Thanx Rob
However, what are the restrictions regarding paddling in groups (ISKA meets) with reference to wind strength, sea state and recommended group sizes. It’s all very well saying NGB members are insured, but for what exactly? Referencing Dave Walsh’s post, CI membership insurance doesn’t cover very much. I’d suggest the membership will need to know exactly what they’re covered for
Cheers
Chris
However, what are the restrictions regarding paddling in groups (ISKA meets) with reference to wind strength, sea state and recommended group sizes. It’s all very well saying NGB members are insured, but for what exactly? Referencing Dave Walsh’s post, CI membership insurance doesn’t cover very much. I’d suggest the membership will need to know exactly what they’re covered for
Cheers
Chris
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brianmacmahon
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:37 am
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Hi Rob,
The caps laid out on CI’s insurance policy seem unusually low. I’m not sure what they are with regard to CANI’s policy but they must be better.
€25k cap excluding excess and inclusive of legal costs wouldn’t cover any claim. The €25k would be eaten up on legal costs alone.
You wouldn’t know what the caps are with regards to CANI’s policy by any chance.
Many thanks
Brian
The caps laid out on CI’s insurance policy seem unusually low. I’m not sure what they are with regard to CANI’s policy but they must be better.
€25k cap excluding excess and inclusive of legal costs wouldn’t cover any claim. The €25k would be eaten up on legal costs alone.
You wouldn’t know what the caps are with regards to CANI’s policy by any chance.
Many thanks
Brian
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Hi Brian
I am posting a link to the publicly available insurance information for the UK policy covering members, clubs and coaches/leaders. This policy is the same regardless of which Home Nation you are in so its the one that applies to anyone who is a member of Paddle UK, Paddle Scotland, Paddle Wales or Paddle NI.
Its a link to the Paddle UK Insurance Zone hosted by Marsh who are the brokers and claim administrators. If the information you want isn't there, there are contact details for Marsh who are supposed to provide further info.
Hope this helps.
Jane
https://www.marshsport.co.uk/ngb-schemes/paddle-uk.html
I am posting a link to the publicly available insurance information for the UK policy covering members, clubs and coaches/leaders. This policy is the same regardless of which Home Nation you are in so its the one that applies to anyone who is a member of Paddle UK, Paddle Scotland, Paddle Wales or Paddle NI.
Its a link to the Paddle UK Insurance Zone hosted by Marsh who are the brokers and claim administrators. If the information you want isn't there, there are contact details for Marsh who are supposed to provide further info.
Hope this helps.
Jane
https://www.marshsport.co.uk/ngb-schemes/paddle-uk.html
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robscanlon
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:35 pm
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Hi Brian,
In the link you'll find the original policy wording and benefit schedule for the CI insurance.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link
The insurance benefits seem to be enough to satisfy many existing kayaking clubsm
Hi Chris,
I am very aware of the limits of CI insurance for what would be a group of kayakers going out on a fun paddle.
This is something that I intend to follow up with them when this debate is settled either way.
We are looking to get the ISKA meets covered and hope that we can agitate better from the inside to get more benefits for ISKA members for more of their paddle trips.
In the link you'll find the original policy wording and benefit schedule for the CI insurance.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link
The insurance benefits seem to be enough to satisfy many existing kayaking clubsm
Hi Chris,
I am very aware of the limits of CI insurance for what would be a group of kayakers going out on a fun paddle.
This is something that I intend to follow up with them when this debate is settled either way.
We are looking to get the ISKA meets covered and hope that we can agitate better from the inside to get more benefits for ISKA members for more of their paddle trips.
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Hi Rob
Long time no see!! Hope you are well.
Interesting that the Insurer is the same for CI and Paddle UK but Paddle UK has much higher policy indemnity limits. I suppose the Paddle UK premium is correspondingly higher.
I've had a look at the CI documentation but I can't see anything that confirms CI have extended that insurance policy cover to CI members, clubs, coaches, volunteers, helpers etc. Its explicit in the Marsh summary documentation for UK members, clubs, coaches etc because they are all included in the description of "The Insured" and consequently they have the benefit of the insurance. You'd expect to see some kind of similar wording in CI's policy schedule/summary that makes it explicit that the insurance cover extends to members, coaches, clubs and any other relevant third parties.
Maybe there is some other documentation that they haven't sent or the broker can confirm this for you/ISKA in writing in the way that Marsh have in the UK? Otherwise, I don't see CI or anyone else could be sure or could demonstrate to anyone that the insurance covers any party other than CI themselves for their own activities, services and employees. The generic policy conditions doc says that they have to specifically ask for the terms of the policy to be extended to any party other than CI such as CI members and clubs. I'm sure they must have but if anyone as dull as me reads this paperwork, its the first point they will raise. Best to head off a potential issue now by asking for the written evidence of that rather than have to try and deal with it at the last minute if someone pedantic raises it!
The Coaching Condition in the Policy Schedule is strange. I wonder how they insure coaches with less than 3 years experience?
Sorry for that boring commentary!!
Jane
Long time no see!! Hope you are well.
Interesting that the Insurer is the same for CI and Paddle UK but Paddle UK has much higher policy indemnity limits. I suppose the Paddle UK premium is correspondingly higher.
I've had a look at the CI documentation but I can't see anything that confirms CI have extended that insurance policy cover to CI members, clubs, coaches, volunteers, helpers etc. Its explicit in the Marsh summary documentation for UK members, clubs, coaches etc because they are all included in the description of "The Insured" and consequently they have the benefit of the insurance. You'd expect to see some kind of similar wording in CI's policy schedule/summary that makes it explicit that the insurance cover extends to members, coaches, clubs and any other relevant third parties.
Maybe there is some other documentation that they haven't sent or the broker can confirm this for you/ISKA in writing in the way that Marsh have in the UK? Otherwise, I don't see CI or anyone else could be sure or could demonstrate to anyone that the insurance covers any party other than CI themselves for their own activities, services and employees. The generic policy conditions doc says that they have to specifically ask for the terms of the policy to be extended to any party other than CI such as CI members and clubs. I'm sure they must have but if anyone as dull as me reads this paperwork, its the first point they will raise. Best to head off a potential issue now by asking for the written evidence of that rather than have to try and deal with it at the last minute if someone pedantic raises it!
The Coaching Condition in the Policy Schedule is strange. I wonder how they insure coaches with less than 3 years experience?
Sorry for that boring commentary!!
Jane
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Hi Tash
Yes - I'd seen that on the website. My point really is that their insurance policy paperwork doesn't match what is on their website in terms of who is insured under their insurance policy. I'd be asking for the missing bit of paperwork if I was doing my due diligence but I'm a lawyer so my approach might be more pedantic than ISKA's.
Cheers
Jane
Yes - I'd seen that on the website. My point really is that their insurance policy paperwork doesn't match what is on their website in terms of who is insured under their insurance policy. I'd be asking for the missing bit of paperwork if I was doing my due diligence but I'm a lawyer so my approach might be more pedantic than ISKA's.
Cheers
Jane
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Chris McDaid
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Canoeing Ireland Affiliation/ Insurance
Tash,
The last line on that link is a concern. Much more detail is required. So, clubs can appoint/sanction leaders and will be covered, provided they comply with CI safety guidelines. Again I’ll ask, what are these guidelines? “Eg buoyancy aids” That link doesn’t say very much
Cheers
Chris
The last line on that link is a concern. Much more detail is required. So, clubs can appoint/sanction leaders and will be covered, provided they comply with CI safety guidelines. Again I’ll ask, what are these guidelines? “Eg buoyancy aids” That link doesn’t say very much
Cheers
Chris