OSI Consultaion Process

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DaveWalsh
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OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:54 am

Mountaineering Ireland have just published a newsletter in which there is the ability to give feedback to OSI on the recent revamping of all their map types including consolidation / integration of data at all scales, which sounds momentous.

A hobby horse (OK, yet another one) of mine and surely of major interest to anyone who uses the Discovery Series 1:50,000 is the failure to show seawater depths beyond the low water mark. The previous OSI offering at half inch scale showed contours for LW, 5 fathoms and 10 fathoms, useful data it was a pity to have discarded in the move from trigonometric to photogrammetry in the 1990s. What they couldn't see they didn't show, they said. I engaged in a debate with them on the subject many years ago in the letters page in the Irish Times and my recollection is it ended up that they publicly undertook to restore depth contours when reviewing the Discovery templates.

I haven't bought a map for years ........

Does anybody know if OSI are yet publishing depth contours @ 1:50K?

Has ISKA been given observer status in the way MI has been or know anything about all this ?

And I suppose I should ask - do Irish kayakers still use 1:50,000 OSI maps ?

Thanks. DW

mcnamado
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:24 am

Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by mcnamado » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:32 pm

Hi Dave,
Haven't seen it on last paper copy I bought or on their on line 50,000 mapping.
Yes I do use the 50k OSI maps for navigation.

And thanks for the recent copy of Oilean.
Donal

knotman
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:37 am

Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by knotman » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:51 pm

Hi guys,
The Wild Atlantic Way Route Atlas ( 15 euros)
gives underwater depth contours of 9 and 18 meters
all the way from Malin Head in Donegal right around to The Old Head of Kinsale in Cork..

30 fold-out convenient sized maps.

That should cover about 80-90% of our potential trouble spots..

Knowing what "lies beneath" ranks right up there with knowing what 'lies ahead" in my book.

Well worth the purchase. . Hope this helps.... Sennen

DaveWalsh
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:37 am

Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:04 pm

Arising out of my having recently registered via Mountaineering Ireland for the OSI survey I have received two draft new Discovery sheets. First sight reaction : nice paper, no underwater contours.

In an exchange of correspondence in the Irish Times in August 2009, copy attached, OSI let things rest with the statement that

“The issue raised by Mr Walsh in relation to the mapping depiction of the shallow seawater depths is also being considered by OSI in the context of the overall review of the Discovery Series.”

I don’t know if the 2009 review is the same review as this one now in 2021 or a different one (anyone with the skinny, I’m all ears), but either way nothing has been gained from this particular perspective.

Does anybody have the ear of anybody in OSI, or does anybody have any suggestion as to what anybody might now do to get anybody anywhere with any influence or authority to take notice of what I think is a very valid suggestion, that the older 20th century underwater contours be superimposed on the newer 21st century mapping sheets?

Obviously a health warning would be needed but that shouldn’t stop them doing what is right?

DW

PS can't upload a PDF. Could that be correct?

DaveWalsh
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Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:46 am

Following up ………

The good news is that in the draft new version of the Discovery series 1:50,000, the foreshore has been divided into and depicted as beach, sand and shingle, mud, and flatrock, not just beach / other intertidal.

I attach a photo AFTER of inner Dingle Bay from the sample sheet 78 showing all four (flatrock bottom left, you have to look for it), and the same BEFORE from an older sheet 78, - beach / other. Regrettably I don’t have an old half inch sheet 20 for direct comparison so I attach a sample from sheet 22 BEFORE BEFORE in the neighbourhood of Dungarvan / Youghal with the 5 / 10 fathom markings. If anyone has an old sheet 20 and could replicate it for me in a photo by email I would be grateful (even more grateful if they had a spare sheet 20 and might bargain …………).

I cannot find amongst the legends any explanation for the white aurora along all the coastline. It does seem to go from white to blue gradually through lighter shades and darker shades. It may be saying something or it may be artistic only. One always has to resist taking an instant dislike to something new, because often these things grow on you, but kneejerk reaction isn’t great, not yet anyway.

What Minister oversees OSI ?????

DW
OSI Before Before.jpg
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OSI Before.jpg
OSI Before.jpg (134.97 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
OSI After.jpg
OSI After.jpg (119.19 KiB) Viewed 2087 times

DaveWalsh
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Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:13 pm

Thanks to a well wisher.
Glenbeigh with depth contours.
Imagine having that data and not publishing it !
DW
OSI Before Before Before 3.jpg
OSI Before Before Before 3.jpg (212.37 KiB) Viewed 2082 times

DaveWalsh
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Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:41 pm

I went at completing the OSI survey but the survey questions were way too targeted at hillwalkers for my purposes with regard to shallow water depth contours and the strange white band along the shoreline.

Therefore I went for a full frontal assault. I wrote to the OSI guy setting out my case in chapter and verse and even sent him a copy of Oileáin and a print of the 2009 correspondence.

It is possible that arising out of this ISKA may get included in the consultative process, but at this late stage I image that would happen only if they have a set of questions oven ready for “below the high water mark”.

So if they do make contact, ISKA head honchos, please do cooperate, as it will surely mean they are even yet open minded, and failure will not be a given, which would be nice.

Hard to credit that within Irish sea kayaking there seems to be nobody who knows somebody who knows somebody?

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Tash
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Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by Tash » Fri May 20, 2022 9:21 pm

This in an interesting topic, and you certainly seem to have been 'fighting the good fight' for too long on this, however I can't help but feel that there is an element of saothar in aisce about it.
Looking at the photos of the OSI maps, I think there may be an illusion of detail created by adding depth contours.
OS maps generally are designed with civil planning, military activities and orienteering in mind; the Discovery Series was created specifically with tourism in mind. No map created for these purposes could ever compare with a nautical chart for detail of coastal features, subsea features, tidal streams, light characteristics, buoyage, marine hazards etc. See attached a small segment of a BA chart covering the same area as one of the maps photographed by way of comparison. It is very rare (but not unknown) that an OS map will show a detail of navigational interest to the kayaker that the nautical chart has missed, and for that reason I think our energies would be better spent trying to convince kayakers to use charts than trying to convince OSI to put contours on their maps.
Of course the OSI maps are still of use to the kayaker. They can help identify good camping spots and sites of interest ashore for when we come in off the water etc.

PS. I'm a big fan of your work David, and am delighted to see that you are still driving it forward.
Attachments
Dingle Bay compressed.jpg
Dingle Bay compressed.jpg (161.33 KiB) Viewed 1421 times

DaveWalsh
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Re: OSI Consultaion Process

Post by DaveWalsh » Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:59 pm

At 4.30 today I got a phonecall from the guy in OSI to whom I wrote last December, who deals with aspects of all this, and we had a great chat. He is passing it all on to another guy, Brian McArdle, who is their “channel man”, which I take it is in-house lingo for shallow water aspects of the whole review process.

I tell you, if I was a budgie I’d have fallen off my perch !

Watch this space …………

DW

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